Tagging: Extra enhancement to the recoveries page

This topic contains 37 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  Jacqui 2 years, 4 months ago.

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    Topic
  • #14197

    Jacqui
    Keymaster

    Hi to all taggers (and those other interested parties)

    I have been working on an enhancement suggested at the AGM (thanks Mike Fox). If you go to the recoveries page you will see that the tag numbers are now hyperlinks to the actual reported sighting page, and you will then be able to check out the maps.

    https://www.monarch.org.nz/wp-admin/admin.php?page=tag-recoveries

    ;

    (This may only be visible to those who are registered for tagging – not sure.)

    If you look to the far right of the tagging recoveries page you will see that in some cases the "trees" are prefixed with a # and in other cases a ?.

    # means it is an interesting observation – not just that one of your butterflies was found in the neighbour’s garden. Looking at the map will give you more information.

    ? means that the map is not (yet) correct. The tagging codes are correct for the recovery, but there must have been some sort of hiccup when the butterfly was released, and the right codes for your address have not registered.

    This will take a bit more time to fix – but if it has happened to you, and you haven’t noticed previously, then you now know it’s a problem. This can be caused by a couple of things:

    If you don’t see the full address flash up in blue underneath where you’ve been typing your address, then the system will default to 0 degrees latitude and 0 degrees longitude… just off the Ivory Coast of deepest, darkest Africa.

    If you live at (say) 1 Queen Street, Nelson and you don’t ensure the co-ordinates are for your Queen Street, the address line in blue might be for Queen Street Auckland or somewhere else! So please make sure it’s the right address.

    Also, if you live at Flat 1, 69 Whatever Street, I suggest you just put in 69 Whatever Street. If you live in a rural address, try measuring the kilometres from the start of that road. Multiply by 100 the number of kilometres your property is from the start point of the road. For example, a property 0.9km along on the right side of the road will be number 90. Likewise, 165 is 1.65km along on the left side. Numbers on the right side of the road (from the beginning) are even; those on the left side are odd.

    For instance, I would say that Te Puna Quarry Park’s butterfly garden is 2 kilometres up Te Puna Quarry Road, therefore 200 would be a more accurate indication of the release site.

    There’s another report where it looks like someone released it in Fiji or Samoa or somewhere… not sure what’s happened there, and it will take a bit of time for me to get "into the works" and fix it.

    Keep up the great work!

    Jacqui

Viewing 25 replies - 1 through 25 (of 37 total)
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  • #50114

    Jacqui
    Keymaster

    Thanks for that, yes the link has changed.

    https://www.monarch.org.nz/wp-admin/admin.php?page=tag-recoveries

    If you want to access this page, and you’re logged in, you can see a tab taking you to it under the Research tab.

    Cheers

    Jacqui

    #50110

    Fishface
    Participant

    When I click on that link I get this error message:
    “You do not have sufficient permissions to access this page.”

    #24838

    Jennifer
    Participant

    Darren, I have been thinking about your data on recoveries. Have you looked at the direction of flight? I noted someone saying hers had taken off largely in a west to south west direction and I have been puzzled that southish is the prefered choice for those of mine I have seen

    #24463

    Jennifer
    Participant

    Thats the policy I too had decided on Darren but it doesnt help about those that where overtaken by untoward weather events immediately after release. I know NZ suffers for 4 seasons in a day but Dunedin’s notoriously fickle changeable weather at this time of year gives me and the butterflies false hope. So I still dont know what to do about those “caught out”.

    #24454

    Darren
    Participant

    I think there might be two issues here.

    the first issue is caring for butterflies generally. My neighbour last night asked me if I could help her with a butterfly she had found which didn’t want to fly. yes I’m a softie and I took it in and its in my garage now.

    The second issue is the scientific research into Monarch migration and overwintering behaviour using the tagging system. Should we only be tagging “normal” butteflies? Should we only tag “wild” butterflies rather than those reared indoors? How do I know what I think is a wild butterfly wasn’t in fact reared indoors further down the street? What happens to the integrity of the data if I tag my neighbour’s sad butterfly and it doesn’t get very far?

    In the absence of any other guidelines I tag the healthy normal looking ones. I give the others the best care I can and wish them all the best, but I don’t tag them.

    #24446

    Jacqui
    Keymaster

    You are very tender hearted, Jennifer!

    No I don’t think this is “wrong”, we all “interfere” with Nature to some extent. I might have done exactly the same as you have in your circumstances… I don’t know.

    Perhaps “interfere” is the wrong word, it makes your action sound meddlesome, and that isn’t what I’m saying.

    I am sure if I slowed down and went slower I would see all sorts of insects etc that could do with a helping hand, but I’m not so involved at this time of my life. Seem to be more involved with computers and indoor things right now.

    Good on you.

    Jacqui

    #24444

    Jennifer
    Participant

    ah well, I and the person in Mosgiel are obviously too tender hearted. But it has to be done because they can just take a short flight in the heat of noon and then perch somewhere quite innapropriate. One had landed the day after release on the path after it turned nasty and started raining and had to be rescued, it would have got trodden on. That has just flown off today after a week inside. It took a very large meal whem it had warmed up the day it was rescued! So am I doing the wrong thing?

    #24428

    Jacqui
    Keymaster

    Hi Jennifer – I don’t think anyone is catching (or recapturing) butterflies and feeding them – once they’ve been released they’re left to do their own thing.

    Jacqui

    #24419

    Jennifer
    Participant

    It doesnt quite answer the question Char, becuase I am talking about butterflies that were released, flew off so thought they had gone, but reappeared the same day and because of the weather and place thay had perched or whatever, were brought in again, fed until a more opportune time when they were released again. The original release date has been entered on that day but it transpred to be premature. I have had three of these.

    #24415

    Charlotte
    Participant

    Hi Jennifer,

    Each time a tagged butterfly lands in my section I try to catch the butterfly and record the tag number.
    Even if I see that this butterfly has visited on several occasions I still report the butterfly as coming here.
    They show up separately on the recoveries page of the website.

    This gives Al & I the information that one or several of our butterflies has been around since we released him/her and she/he keeps coming back.

    Once you’ve recorded the data of the recovered butterfly just let the butterfly go and if he/she comes back again to feed on nectar or whatever she/he may be doing you can then catch the butterfly and record the details again. Hope this makes sense for you Jennifer.

    Cheers
    Char

    #24414

    Jennifer
    Participant

    So with the butterfly that was released, then collected up again do we record it as a recovery. If it is then released again what do I do?

    #24413

    Jacqui
    Keymaster

    Hi Jennifer, they come up as another sighting. For instance see EAA089, it stuck around Charlotte’s garden for some weeks, when it was last spotted in a neighbour’s garden.

    J.

    #24409

    Jennifer
    Participant

    However I am a bit confused aout recoveries in general. I notice several of those reported are just a short time after release and seen by the original tagger. Then if alive they are released again. What happens to the data if they are found again?

    #24408

    Jennifer
    Participant

    Oh heavens, why did I say that? Along with microscopy i might have landed myself in the proverbial!

    #24405

    Darren
    Participant

    It’s good to get input from people who use the system, because if people don’t understand the system what use is it?

    But at the same time a lot of people just want to grow their plants and tag their butterflies and don’t want to be bothered about the inner working of the website.

    Personally I prefer to keep people well informed. And if you got the wrong end of the stick Jennifer, that just tells me the stick should have had its ends labelled more clearly! 😉

    A psychologist with experience designing questionnaires eh? Now those skills could be _very_ useful!

    #24402

    Jennifer
    Participant

    thanks for that jacqui, I obviously got the wrong end of the stick. I think I will keep away from this thread and leave it to others who know better what they are talking about!

    #24388

    Jacqui
    Keymaster

    Hi Jennifer

    I hear what you’re saying – and agree – but the suggestion we’re making wouldn’t prohibit you from tagging at any particular address. But if I sometimes released at my home and sometimes in a garden, what we’re saying is that I could choose an address I’ve used previously OR another location – and these addresses (plus their latitude and longitude) would be remembered somewhere in the database, to make it easier for the person releasing.

    When we get entries that are not precise enough, or are wrong, I contact the people concerned and find out more information. Sometimes just looking up their address in the phone book is enough. sometimes because they live in a flat, when they record their address as “Flat One, 123 Whatever Street” the automatic system can’t find them, but I take out the “Flat One” and it will find the address and code it with latitude and longitude.

    But at this point it does not need to be TOO precise, so that’s not a problem.

    Hope that explains things better.

    Jacqui

    #24386

    Jennifer
    Participant

    I hope I am not too late with these comments.
    I just used 2 of my tags to teach someone how to do it and so the address for those releases will be quite different from mine. (In fact one has already been entered as a release but it was a false start as it had to be recovered at the beginning of this foul weather) So a fixed choice nominated address method wouldnt really work for such releases. Other people must do this sort of thing too. I have had no experience with recoveries but noted some time earlier this year that someone had reported a sighting in my area and they had just put the location as St Clair. Quite often people go for a walk and wont know exactly where they picked up the butterfly except the general location so I cant see them ever giving much precision and if forced to do so might be quite misleadingly innaccurate. (I speak here as a psychologist with much experience in devising research questionaires) You can only be as precise as the original data which in this case is people’s memories. Like it or not I think there are only three options, 1) loose all information down to the suburb or locality level 2)ignore all reports with an inadequate location or 3)analyse the data twice using both those two methods. Nevertheless Darren’s analysis is fascinating.

    #23908

    Jacqui
    Keymaster

    That’s terrific, Darren. Superb.

    #23907

    Darren
    Participant

    I just could not get my head around the bearing calculations, so I was manually entering the data into the Waypoint Workbench program for people involved in the sport of geocaching. (http://www.fabalou2dsl.clara.net/WW.htm)

    It was tedious, took a long time, and introduced another source of errors, so I wrote to Chris Shepherd, one of the authors of the program and explained my dilemma. He has kindly created a spreadsheet for us that does exactly what we need. I have no idea how it works but it is amazing!

    #23884

    Anonymous

    Hi,

    Darren,
    Good to see you got your head around the data. It just confuses me & I understand it in a different way everytime I look.

    As for the focus group, it’s a great idea. Maybe use a sticky forum post to find interested people to process details & use Google docs for the action plan files etc.

    Robert.

    #23879

    Darren
    Participant

    I release from two locations: home and work. If every tagger nominated a couple of spots when they registered then could those be hard-wired into their login to come up as the default location for entering tags? Then the address system could be for those who tag when they are out and about. Does anyone do that?

    That would remove a lot of the problems from the release side, and if we have 5000+ releases and 100+ recoveries making the release process as bulletproof as possible will have the biggest payoff.

    It is always going to be tricky when members of the public find our tags because they could be anywhere. Maybe include a link to that finder site mentioned in another thread so they can check their location? Or could a map be generated on the fly for a confirmation page and once they have checked the map is correct then they hit a confirm button or have the chance to try again with their address? I agree 100% that such data should not go straight into the database. It should always be moderated by a human, but with 100+ recoveries that is not such a big job?

    I think the focus group is a great idea, but could it be handled with the existing forum set-up? Maybe start a sticky thread dedicated to that? That way those who are not interested don’t have to read it, but any forum member could post ideas or requests to it. I see a lot of open source souftware proects using that system now, often called a “wiki”.

    #23866

    Jacqui
    Keymaster

    Learning curve!

    I thought it was, and I was merrily trying to type up notes explaining how to do it when I discovered it cannot be done. However, Google does find Urupukapuka Island (no street address) so technically I could release a butterfly from there, with no street address.

    You will appreciate that the taggers have a range of competencies (and also time constraints) and it’s important to protect the integrity of the data as much as we can. Some people don’t even know how to cut and paste, and that’s an important tool when you’re talking about taking GPS co-ordinates from one website to paste into another.

    Perhaps it would be better for less internet-savvy taggers to have on their profile the most common addresses that they’d be releasing from, so that it was not possible to change the co-ordinates. I also think that someone like Mary, a very busy woman, releasing hundreds of butterflies from two different locations, would like to be able to choose which location they were released from when she goes to put her data in. A radio or tick box would be much more simple for her.

    I will put it on the list of things to be discussed…

    Another thought I did have was, that we are getting some really skilled and internet-savvy people working on the tagging project now, and perhaps we could form a small focus group on prioritising what gets done next, and how it should be done. Discussion could be via an email loop (perhaps) and access to a “to do” list in Google docs. I think that would be an excellent way to fix any bugs, test any new initiatives etc.

    What do you think of that idea? I will talk to the trustees about it too.

    #23864

    Darren
    Participant

    Would it be feasible to allow direct entry of GPS co-ordinates for obscure locations?

    For example a quick squizz at google maps shows that the Te Puna Quarry Park’s butterfly garden is at -37.704756,176.046896

    http://maps.google.co.nz/maps?ll=-37.704756,176.046896&spn=0.005959,0.010707&t=h&z=16

    #23863

    Darren
    Participant

    Funny you should say that Jean, because I’m actually terrible with numbers. Maths at school was dreadful, forget my own phone number sometimes, can’t remember the years my children were born, when I have to put my age on a form I double check on my fingers.

    But I love information, and beating an ugly pile of confusing numbers with a stick until I get some useful information out of them is very satisfying in a strange way. 😉

    Tagging still going strong in Tauranga. My children got to see 7 butterflies emerging over breakfast (although I suppose that should be ‘eclosing’ eh Jacqui?) Got a hundred tags in the post today and I reckon I’ll need all of them.

Viewing 25 replies - 1 through 25 (of 37 total)

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